Exclusive: Sheng Thao gives final interview as Oakland mayor

OAKLAND, Calif. (KRON) -- Last month, voters approved a recall of Oakland Mayor Sheng Thao.

KRON4's Stephanie Lin sat down with Thao ahead of Tuesday, the recalled mayor's final day in office. Thao spoke on the firing of the OPD chief, the A's departure, what she learned in her two years in office, the FBI raid, etc.

Watch the full interview in the video player above or read the Q&A below.

KRON4: So tell us a bit about how you're feeling right now. You faced a lot of challenges in the last couple of years, and the voters just recalled you out of office. How are you feeling?

Thao: You know, I'm very proud of the values that my administration led with. We knew coming into office that crime was on the rise. We knew that there were homeless encampments that needed addressing. We knew that the streets were dirty. That needs addressing. We could have done what was popular versus what was right, but we chose to do what was right.

And at the end of the day, it's not about getting into office for me to play politics. It's about getting into office, so we can create the real changes and the real positive impacts on people's lives.

KRON4: You were meant to be in office for you. It looks like you'll be in for two. Given that, what would you say are some accomplishments that you're proud of?

Thao: You know, again, my team and I, we were able to accomplish a lot. Obviously, coming in, we knew that there's going to be a lot of changes that needed to happen. Something that I'm most proud of is saving lives. You know, we went through a whole month of October with zero homicides. You know, resurrecting the cease-fire strategy, where OPD is working with the Department of Violence Prevention and Community.

We're seeing less people dying on our streets. And it's not only less people dying on our streets, but it's also an overall decrease in crime. Right. And so your property crimes are robberies or burglaries. Of course, it's not at 0% yet, but it is way lower than a time where with the time before we came into office.

KRON4: Can you say that those that the police data is, though, at the end of the day, because it has been reported that there were some inaccuracies with the reporting in the police data?

Thao: You know, the inaccuracies aren't true inaccuracies. There is, as you know, it takes about 3 to 4 months sometimes to update the system, whether it's around property crimes or burglaries. People that are reporting via the online system, you know, they just need to be verified. And then sometimes those numbers will change. What I can tell you is that the homicide is not the homicide numbers.

They don't change. Right. Because when someone is murdered or there's a homicide of some sort, you can't hide those bodies. And so we know that the strategy that we're carrying forward, that we are apprehending the people who are at fault, you know, that we are making sure that people are safer.

KRON4: You acknowledge that there do need to be some improvements with the current tracking system when it comes to different types of crimes to ensure that there is more accuracy with those numbers.

Thao: Right. You know, of course, we can always do better. You know, something that we have done better on is the fact that our 911 system, it's never fun or sexy for, you know, politicians to come in and actually do an overhaul of our ID system. But that's what we did because we knew that that was going to save lives.

Oaklanders, like let's be very clear, Oaklanders were really frustrated that when they called 911, they get a busy signal or you know, they, it doesn't get picked up within a timely manner. And so today I can report that we're at 71%. That's 71% of our calls are being answered within 15 seconds. And it's all interconnected. Right. The dispatchers that we've put in place, we've hired all of our dispatchers.

We started a whole new way of training them under my administration and leadership. And this Oakland has never seen numbers as high as this in regards to your number one system since every riot that we can't even remember the last time it's been that way.

KRON4: But it sounds like there's also room for more.

Thao: Oh, absolutely. There's always more room for improvement. We want to get up to the 90 percentile when it comes to picking up the phone calls within 15 seconds. You know, that has always been the goal. But to come in and have a911 dispatch pick up calls at a 34% rate, we came in and they were picking up phone calls at a 34% level.

And we've increased that within, you know, a year and a half to 71%. And so we're definitely headed on the right track, and Oakland is definitely being set up for success.

KRON4: I'd like to talk a bit about the recall election. What was your reaction when you heard about the final results? I know that you campaigned quite heavily against the recall. Of course.

Thao: It's disheartening because we just got in, started to do the work and we're seeing the real results, the positive results. And I will always do what was right for the city of Oakland versus, you know, doing what's politically popular to stay in office. To stay in office for the sake of staying in office. Right. If I play the political games, then I probably would still be in office today.

KRON4: What do you mean by playing politics?

Thao: Well, you know, of course, you know, I just, for example, call I'm a staunch believer that we cannot have coal come through Oakland. You know, there were conversations that were had. And I continue to say that, no, I will not allow for coal to come in. And so we see people who have invested in coal across the country, billionaires come in to actually remove me from office.

When you get into this leadership position, it is so critical that you represent your values because the general public are not is not going to receive and have and may never have all the full 100% information for whether it's legal purposes or what have you. But you have the information. It is up to you as a leader what you do with that information.

Do you go along just to get along or do you go and you lead through your values because you know what is right for the city?

KRON4: Why didn't you issue a rebuttal statement in the voter guide when it came to the recall?

Thao: You know, with I mean, obviously, this is a first time ever for a recall of the mayor, you know, and running the city is always my top priority. And so that's what I was hyper-focused on, making sure that our homicide levels were, you know, decreasing, making sure that our crime levels was decreasing. We have economic workforce development.

That's coming in. We had the Coliseum, so we had all these different things that were happening. And my priorities -- always to be the mayor first. But at the end of the day, for me, again, it's not about playing the politics. It's about ensuring that Oakland continues its positive track. And again, it's such a sensitive process that if you let your foot off the gas just a little bit, we can see Oakland Spiral.

KRON4: Yeah, I hear that. But I that was an opportunity to also speak your case against, you know, this well-funded campaign against.

Thao: Well, that was one opportunity. But there are multiple other opportunities in the sense of the results, right? The results that we were able to drive. And so we feel confident that we were able to show those results through our actions.

KRON4: Is it possible someone just forgot to fill out the form?

Thao: Well, you know, again, it was a new process, you know, and so it's not that someone forgot to fill out the form. You know, it's more so it's a new process. And, you know, as it was with ballot measures or what have you, people get notified and all of that stuff. But, you know, where was the notification on this?

You know, so there were other things that were in play. However, at the end of the day, you know, we were just focused on making sure that cities run.

KRON4: Yeah, I ask this too, because of what happened around the city, missing a critical deadline to fill out an application for a form to get a grant to prevent retail theft. And so I just wonder, you know, if you feel like you surrounded yourself with the right people to make sure that critical deadlines like that are being met and opportunities like that are being missed.

Thao: You know, even in the past, you know, opportunities like that have been this even previous to my administration, the once perfect, you know, grants nowadays they require for multiple departments to work together and then for someone to submit it. Obviously, I don't, you know, oversee all the nuances of every single department. That's actually not my job. However, of course, what we did was we took action.

We took action in regard to that response, we have a centralized grant maker which we put in place so that something like this will never happen again. And not just that, but we worked with all of the different businesses to create an informal network of support with ambassadors, with OPD, you know, with other organizations, whether it be at BART or AC Transit or the sheriff's department.

And so that is something that has never happened before. So what I'm really proud of when I leave this office is the fact that we were able to get our partners to come to the table and have a strong relationship of partnership. And I really hope that this continues on with the next administration.

KRON4: Sounds like you're already thinking ahead about your thinking on that, on what's going to come next. Let's talk a bit about the special election that's upcoming. So this month will be your last in the mayor's chair as of now. Now. So what happens next for people in Oakland like in terms of who's going to be the next mayor?

Thao: So it's, you know, on the 17th, the 17th, the results will be certified by the city council. So that would be my last day of work. And then the council president, which is council President Bass, will take over as interim mayor for until she is sworn in on January 6th at the county where then then the city council and the new council members coming on board will vote for a council president.

That council president will then be the interim mayor for the city of Oakland until the special election, which is my understanding it'll be held late April. The new mayor will be sworn in probably early May. And then from that point, that that new mayor will finish out my term, which is just another, you know, from that point to be a year and a half before another election is run.

KRON4: It sounds complicated.

Thao: Very complicated.

KRON4: Now, you've mentioned before in previous interviews that we've done with you, that there will be a surge in crime because of the number of mayors that the city of Oakland is going to see. Do you still stand by that statement?

Thao: You know, I really hope that, you know, the system, the strategy that we've put in place continues as it does. But just like with any institution or organization, with a lack of stability, a lack of leadership, that could be the case. And so with that being said, you know, again, it is my goal to keep the positive statistics and the positive data moving forward.

And so I will continue to do whatever it is that I can do, whether I'm in office or not, to help the city of Oakland.

KRON4: You can run in the special election, can't you?

Thao: I haven't looked into that, but I believe that that is the case.

KRON4: Do you think that would be of interest to you?

Thao: You know, at this point, again, I'm a mom, a mother first. Everything every decision I make, I run it through my son. You know, I talk to my family first and make sure that that's something that that we want to do.

KRON4: I'm sensing that there is going to be a lot more time spent with family moving forward. Is there a sense of relief that comes with this recall as well?

Thao: You know, I'm again, I'm always a public servant, so I'm always going to be looking for how I can great impact in the community. And so it's not so much of a sign of relief. I of course, I am able to spend more time with my son as he's you know, he's actually at a music conservatory for college.

And so I get to go see a lot more of his performances. We're always going to be around doing work and we're committed to that. And so it's not going to be a change of pace at all, I would say. It's just, you know, we will no longer hold a title and that's okay, too. There's a lot of work that everyone can do to make sure that Oakland is uplifted.

KRON4: Let's talk a little bit about the budget. Right, it's going to cost the city at least $5 million to run this special election. And we also know there's been a lot of reporting around this, that the city of Oakland is on the verge of that risk of bankruptcy. Do you think the city can weather this?

Thao: I do believe that there is a pathway to make sure that we don't actually, you know, get into using this the B-word. Right. But action needs to be taken immediately. And so I'm working with Council President (Nikki Fortunato) Bas, you know, right now. And we're making sure that we can close this deficit. But hard conversations are going to be had.

Right, and some of those conversations are already being had right now.

KRON4: How much responsibility do you take for the city's current financial state?

Thao: Oh, you know, this of the financial state of the city has been an issue that has been kicked down the road for decades. You know, even when I was just a young staffer working for the city. This has always been the case, is that we have a structural deficit and that we were not. Our revenues were coming in as strong enough then what it is to pay out for, you know, pensions or paying out for the services that we have.

You know, we didn't get into this decades-old issue in our budget because something happened overnight. It was a decades-old issue because we couldn't figure out in the city of Oakland how to get new generate new revenue streams. And I believe that leaders have come and gone and not really paid to you to West Oakland and East Oakland, where we can generate these new revenues.

KRON4: Is there any way to save the city from complete bankruptcy without affecting public safety, without slashing budgets around public safety?

Thao: There's going to be all-around cuts throughout the whole city, in my opinion, in all departments. Right. And so right now there you know, there's a high possibility that we can get through this, but it's going to take decisive decision makers, decisive leadership in order for this to get done. Right. Again, I, I encourage, you know, the Councilmember City start work.

You know, if they haven't started already they need to work on this immediately, it's a real serious issue.

KRON4: Let's talk a bit about the FBI raid. How much has that just the news of that affected your ability to govern?

Thao: You know, it's not so much about how it affected my ability to govern. It definitely had a huge negative impact on the recall. Right. You know, I'm innocent. I've done nothing wrong. The FBI has told me I'm not the target of this, although they won't come out. They're actually quiet. Right. Like, I'll, you know, as much as the what the public does.

And so knowing that I'm innocent, that I've done nothing wrong, it really didn't impact the way that I, you know, how I govern or how effective I would be. I still, you know, did everything that I would do. It is a process, but it did have a negative impact on the recall. I do believe that, you know, you know that there's a huge injustice here.

KRON4: Your attorney has been in touch with the FBI. Correct. And they've communicated with your attorney about your innocence as well?

Thao: Correct. At my SO my attorney has been in communication with the FBI. The FBI has told my attorney that I am not the target of the investigation. However, you know, we've also sent a follow-up letter demanding that they either, you know, give us the results of the case, close the case, or just come out and say, I'm not the target of this investigation.

KRON4: If you're not the target of the FBI raid, then who is?

Thao: Your guess is as good as mine. I really don't know. You know, they haven't told us anything. And so, again, these questions are really great questions for the FBI.

KRON4: Given everything that's happened, is there anything that you would change without compromising your values?

Thao: I think that with the firing of Chief Leronne Armstrong, I think that the communication on our part could have been stronger on that part. I think that there was a perception that the reason why I let him go was around a report, you know, an investigative report that came out. The chief was at the pleasure of the mayor.

And we're under federal oversight. Right. And we have been for now going on over 20 years. And so, you know, to have a chief that goes around saying that, you know, the federal monitor is corrupt or what have you that isn't conducive to being able to actually move the city forward.

KRON4: So no regrets about the firing, even though it did trigger this recall campaign against you.

Thao: Correct. I don't regret firing the chief, Leronne Armstrong. I do believe that is the right decision. That is the decision that ultimately has brought down crime, brought down homicides. The popular decision would have been to keep him on. Right. But I also know that I also, again, have information that made me feel as if, like the city of Oakland, the city of Oakland deserves to be number one.

And if I'm choosing the city of Oakland, then fine. Lauren, it's not a regret of mine.

KRON4: Can you speak to the situation around the Oakland A's as well?

Thao: Oh, absolutely. You know, no, I don't regret what happened with the Oakland A's at all. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, we put out our best effort to try to keep the Oakland A's in the city of Oakland. Obviously, the negotiations were far along the way before I got into office, you know, and so at the tail end of it, you know, there was a moment at the very beginning where we can salvage you know, the relationship, where we can move forward.

And we worked really hard to represent the values of the city of Oakland and to keep the Oakland A's here. And at the end of the day, our values align. They wanted to build a stadium on the backs of Oakland taxpayers. And so at the end of the day, we also know that the A's were looking to leave the city of Oakland for over a decade.

And so the seriousness on the city's part, it was all there. And it was their decision, their decision to abandon the city of Oakland.

KRON4: What do you think you learned from the last two years here?

Thao: I think that a lot of people sometimes, you know, you may make a decision that's not so popular to the public, but just be cognizant that, you know, as the mayor, I receive a lot more information about, you know, different situations than what the public will ever see or hear about. And at the end of the day, for me, Oakland was always my North Star.

KRON4: How old is your son?

Thao: My son just turned 18. So he's a freshman in college, and my daughter is 10 years old.

KRON4: Yeah. How do you explain just everything that's happened to them?

Thao: Well, you know, I keep them out of the out of the spotlight you know, we try to keep everything separate. But in regards to the situation at hand, you know, I can tell you that they're really proud of me. You know, they know exactly what I was fighting for. And again, it's a great, great feeling to be a living example for your kids, you know, to actually do what you're preaching.

And so, yeah. So we're leaving this office with our head held high. I'm a true believer that history will correct the record, you know, whether it be slow or fast or what have you. But at the end of the day, you know, we're proud of the work that we did and what we did in a short, less than two years in office.

It's going to keep generational impacts in the city of Oakland.